can god be in the presence of sin

It wasn’t that God couldn’t look upon him, rather God turned away because sin leads to spiritual death. Yes, He is pure, but this purity doesn’t mean He can’t touch evil or be near it. In other words, there is no place where God is not. “And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.” 1 Thessalonians 5:23. The question is inherently flawed because it does not view sin in the proper light and and seems to imply that God can somehow not be ever present. And you can take heart that the presence of these ungodly, sinful acts won’t be any sort of deterrent to Him. Can god be in the presence of sin? Quietness Hearing God's Voice Concealment, Of Sin Gardens Suffering, Emotional Aspects Of Hiding From God God, Presence Of God, Human Descriptions Of Unity, God's Goal Of They heard the sound of the Lord God walking in the garden in the cool of the day, and the man and his wife hid themselves from the presence of the Lord God among the trees of the garden. Thank goodness, because if God truly could not be in the presence of sin, none of us would be here! Since God & Jesus couldn’t commit spiritual suicide, God’s turning away was the closest thing to it. Here is God’s answer to our cry for deliverance from the presence of sin. He wants to touch the “tainted” hearts, heal the brokenness, and clean away the shame. Why/Why Not/What are the Consequences? To be sure, God ordained in the Old Testament that his “presence” be directly associated with the tabernacle in the wilderness or the temple in Jerusalem so that people could speak of entering into God’s presence in the sense that they came near to the place where he had appointed his name especially to dwell or to be identified with. When I’ve watched a movie that suddenly had an immoral part I didn’t expect, or when evil is presented in a funny or appealing way, I would feel violated. In the Genesis study, he taught God (mercifully) made noise in the Garden so Adam and Eve … The problem is that this place has an enemy. If God can’t be in the presence of sin, then Jesus was not God–since our world is fraught with sin! The free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord. God rescues His people from situations in which nothing but God can rescue them. So to say that God can not be in the presence of sin is wrong. The mortal will put on immortality. Sin hinders everything now, especially man’s experience of God’s presence. The problem is that we cannot be in the presence of God. And then, of course, there’s the ultimate evidence that God is not afraid to be in the presence of sin: Jesus himself. We also know that God is omnipresent, which means he is present everywhere. The presence of God they once knew freely is no longer free. Search titles only; Posted by Member: Separate names with a comma. Holmes. The Ultimate Lie. So thankful for the skill you have in comparing Scripture with Scripture, in order that those of us who were taught by men who pulled isolated verses out of context to teach the ideologies of man might instead find hope. If sin can not exist in the presence of God, How could Satan (in the book of Job) walk multiple times into the councils of heaven? Sorry, your blog cannot share posts by email. This sin is the root of all our many social ills. Can sinful man touch God? Post Views: 1. He couldn’t have taken all our sins upon Himself on the cross. 12:10). “‘Am I only a God nearby,’ declares the Lord, ‘and not a God far away? Because God is omnipresent, we are always in his presence. The Bible tells us that the Holy Spirit can be “quenched” as well as … So if God can’t be in the presence of sinners, then He cannot have fellowship with believers. That gives me a tiny glimpse of the way God views sin. Why can't sin be in the presence of God when the father of lies, the sinner of all sins, is allowed to have a conversation with God & the Angels in Heaven? Matthew 7:21-23 ESV / 67 helpful votes Helpful Not Helpful “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Answer: To answer this question, we must first consider who God is. But according to Job 1, God does both. I’ve understood Jesus being forshaken as a temporary state, part of the penalty he is taking on to cleanse us. Throughout the Old Testament period, we find various ways in which God revealed His presence in special ways. He comes into the places of trauma to bring healing. It’ was the loss of all hope. A friend who is a survivor of lifelong horrific abuse asked me once if I felt dirty or violated or tainted listening to her story (told in agonizing bits and pieces over the course of months). That sin separates us from God. How desperate that loss of perfect fellowship with the Father must have been. with love and respect, andy153 Oct 14, 2004. Seek the Holy Spirit For Strength. Lots of verses tell us he is with us in times of danger and around evil forces Beating down anyone is an evil in itself. This is one of those Christian catch phrases that always make me scratch my head. The Bible teaches just as darkness cannot exist in the presence of light, sin cannot exist in the presence of a holy God. (You can also click on “My books” above for more information.). Before continuing, we need to be clear about a couple of terms. First of all, deliverance from sin through Jesus Christ is not deliverance from the POSSIBILITY of sin. Hence all the confrontations on earth, and ultimately the crucifixion, the death blow. This is proven by God’s omnipresence (as you noted), the incarnation of God the Son, and even God’s continued (if temporary) interaction with some of the fallen angels (including Satan – e.g. For Jesus to pay the full price for our sin, he had to experience the lonely, Godless, emptiness of spiriitual death. Can anyone hide in secret places so that I cannot see him?’ declares the Lord. 12volt_man Well-Known Member. June 26, 2012 by Mark. DEVOTIONAL THOUGHT: Some people get confused about when salvation happens. Man can bang his head all day long against that Closed Door and it shall not open. Why doesn’t He stop the abuse when it’s happening? Ponder that with me for a second and see if it doesn’t cause a shiver of delight to wrap around your spine. 7,339 +245 Christian. The purpose is different. ABSOLUTELY NOT ! Just as the omniscience of God suffers apparent paradoxes due to the limitations of the human mind, so does the omnipresence of God. I believe there is a place you can go—right after you sin—where you will receive the very tools you need to receive forgiveness from that sin and power to walk in victory over that sin. So if God can’t be in the presence of sinners, then He cannot have fellowship with believers. Sin results in the withdrawal of the Holy Ghost. Why/Why Not/What are the Consequences? Boys will be boys. Because of their disobedience, Adam and Eve are now exiles; their mission is in shambles as they stand outside of Eden. Well, I had heard an equally cold hearted statement inside some Charismatic circles.. ‘If you have a problem, you aren’t right with God. Yes, God can be in the presence of sin. Can God Be In The Presence of Sin? Despite God’s repeated attempts to make a way for people, sin kept getting in the way of them enjoying and knowing the power of His presence in their lives. Question: "Can God sin? So yes, Jesus can be in the presence of sin. Sin is what draws us away from God's presence. This is a violating action, similar to trying to take someone by surprise with pornography. — God made him who had no sin to be sin for us, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God. Taken from our blog, Greg Koukl of Stand to Reason answers the question, "If God cannot be in the presence of sin, how could Satan have approached him … Here’s the Joy participates in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites. The Bible teaches that God is opposed to sin and evil, that he is holy and righteous. Salvation is God’s power to deliver and protect in this life and in the age to come. Habakkuk 1:13 says that God is too pure to look on evil. What?! Through Jesus Christ and His Atonement, each person can repent and be forgiven of sins. “My spirit has rejoiced in God my Savior.” He desires that all men be saved (1 Tim. Throughout the Old Testament period, we find various ways in which God revealed His presence in special ways. Who can forgive sins, but God alone?” Luke 7:36-50. The story of Scripture begins and ends with the presence of God. When Jesus was dying, the Scriptures tell us, He cried out (Matthew 27:46): So why did the Father forsake Him? Pastor Jimmy Buehler. The Lord Jesus Christ, when He died, took upon Himself all the sins of all those who believe on Him. Thanks for another thought provoker, and the clarity, Rebecca. But the good news is that even as we draw far away from God, He waits for us to return and even invites us to come back to Him. Believers still sin (1 John 1:8, 10). Satan is the essence of sin, the epitome of sin itself. If you are saved, you can sin anytime you want to sin. When those whose hearts are set against Him engage in sinful acts, His presence is not, Why doesn’t He stop the abuse when it’s happening? After that, you enter a process of sanctification where you are being saved from the power of sin. God is everywhere, ever present. Let’s start with the most obvious one. Stand to Reason Blog; (1 John 1:8) So what does deliverance from sin mean? He couldn’t have been there when the Jews were making His Father’s house into a den of thieves. Let the Christian remember what God thinks about sin - the hatred with which his holiness bums against it, the solemn sacrifice which he made to conquer sin, and deliver us from it. He is a Holy and Divine Lord. Dr. Michael Gleghorn is both a research associate with Probe Ministries and an instructor in Christian Worldview at Grand Canyon University in Phoenix, Arizona.. So, it seems clear that God does see evil and He does allow sin to come into His presence. If he cannot, then how is he an omnipresent being? Obviously, if God cannot look upon sin or evil then God should not have been able to look upon satan, or even allow satan to enter His presence. #1 – We Are Always In The Presence Of God. Christians often say that God cannot allow any sin in his presence. God is spirit (John 4:24) and does not have a physical presence. Is this biblical ? John says: If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. He is just, so He demands payment for wrongs. Job 1-2, etc.). If God cannot be in the presence of sinners, then there can be no judgment of sinners. The human mind, however, cannot adequately grasp who He is if it were not for the special revelations He has given us. The Bible teaches that God is opposed to sin and evil, that he is holy and righteous. Many argue that hell is a place of separation from God (Matthew 25:41) and … I think this belief came from some teaching about the death of Jesus on the cross. Crazy , how many “Christian adages” we just accept without thinking critically about them. (I delineate some of those on my “The beliefs behind the blog” page.). When those whose hearts are set against Him engage in sinful acts, His presence is not with them in any positive sense. God is spirit (John 4:24) and does not have a physical presence. Why/Why Not/What are the Consequences? Job 1-2, etc. This is an effective way for Him to speak His love and care to the heart of the one who was harmed and bring healing to the wounds caused by others. After all, the majority of the world still embraced their sin rather than Jesus. Can sinful man be in the presence of God? If you are saved, you can sin anytime you want to sin. God has a reputation for not being able to be around sin or sinners. But, this is not the whole story. What we read and find happening there is a conversation between satan ( the epitome of sin,evil etc..) and God over His protection of His servant Job. “God can’t be in the presence of sin,” more than one friend has said to me, “so there’s no way Jesus could be there where that awful stuff is happening.”, I think this belief came from some teaching about the death of Jesus on the cross. The Bible does not say that God cannot be in the presence of sin. ). 6. Without God, there is no hope. He loves you. With that mind, here are four simple, utterly ordinary, utterly profound ways we can enjoy the presence of God every day. God cannot look WITH FAVOR upon sin and evil, but He can certainly be in the presence of sinners. It makes the one who sins unable to dwell in the presence of Heavenly Father, for “no unclean thing can dwell with God” (1 Nephi 10:21). Sin hinders everything now, especially man’s experience of God’s presence. June 2011 + Irini nem ehmot, The question itself is inherently flawed. But when I’m helping someone process her memories, the purpose of her telling horrors is not to violate me or manipulate me, but to get help. So what are we to make of all this? He comes into the places of trauma to bring … A new perspective on an old question, Here’s Why “Gratitude Motivation” Isn’t Biblical—and What’s Better, “Your empathy is a sin” – a response to Desiring God, Hope for the Weary at Advent (guest post by Teri Zalk), The secret to living a life that pleases God, Your Pastor Isn’t Moses: a Response to John Bevere’s “Under Cover”. If you choose to purchase books through these links, thank you! In the presence of God sin must either destroyed or else changed so much as to be identical with being destroyed. CAN he? After their sin, they became separated from this presence. The point of pastors saying that God cannot be in the presence of sin or God cannot countenance sin is that he cannot simply be dismissive of sin. He is holy, so He can't be in the presence of sin. God avoid standing fully revealed in our presence to protect us from that danger not to protect Himself who cannot be harmed. The limitation is not on God. God's presence is the place of your victory and the devil's defeat! lets look at Matthew 28:19. The problem isn't that God can't be in the presence of sin. Sin is no less possible for you now than it was before. He cannot be everywhere if he also cannot be within the presence of sin. Let me see if I can shed some light on this subject. Sin cannot exist in heaven, as it would therefore cease to be heaven. When Christians are in the presence of sin, they can be tainted by it, of course. And He's loving and merciful, so He desires that all people know Him and His saving grace. It is not deliverance from the PRESENCE of sin. In addition, the prophet Isaiah, himself a sinful man, was in the presence of God, as recorded  in Isaiah 6. It makes the one who sins unable to dwell in the presence of Heavenly Father, for “no unclean thing can dwell with God” (1 Nephi 10:21). When you audibly speak God's inspired Word, you will sense its power and His … He can’t just say, “Hey, you know, you’re a sinner, you’re a rebel, no problem, no big deal. @ osullivanbr: God cannot be in the presence of sin; He even had to look away from his one and only Son while He hung on the cross bearing the sins of the world—our sins. The Self-Abdicating sort, though none in that Ministry of Death (what scripture calls the Old Covenant), none in that hell on earth in which Man finds himself outside of God (hell defined), yet in the presence of God, ever are one-with-God, or, inside of God. He comes into the places of trauma to bring healing. What does it mean, then, to be in God's presence? “For whatever things were written before were written for our learning, that we through the patience and comfort of the Scriptures might have hope.” Read Scripture Aloud. Jesus was called a friend of sinners. God cannot look WITH FAVOR upon sin and evil, but He can certainly be in the presence of sinners. You have free will. Satan works overtime to keep you out of this one place, and it is the place of God's glorious presence. To hold the belief that God cannot be in the presence of sin, one would have to first deny trinitarian theology and the divinity of Jesus– there’s no legitimate way around that. God cannot look upon sin, God cannot allow sin into His presence, God must turn away from looking at sin and similar cliché's. On behalf of atheists everywhere I'd like to publicly thank the fundies for creating such comedy for us to larff at. As in … Don’t bother Him with your problem!’ We could say that God (Jesus, specifically) cannot look on sin without dealing with sin. What does it mean, then, to be in God's presence? Post was not sent - check your email addresses! One of the points of the 'gospel' message that I've often heard (and have memorized and shared with others in the past) is that God is Holy and that means he can not be in the presence of sin. In prayer ministry work with abuse survivors, it’s common to ask Jesus to show up in the memory of the abuse. He couldn’t have been there when the Jews were making His Father’s house into a den of thieves. ? In fact, the full rendering is, “Your eyes are too pure to look on evil.”  But we know God does not literally have eyes! Those who love him will no longer be in the presence of sin from that point forward. He also reversed the curse of our old natures, which keeps us enslaved to sinful passions and desires … The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. Tweets by @STRtweets. ‭‭Romans‬ ‭15:4‬ ‭NKJV‬‬ And you can take heart that the presence of these ungodly, sinful acts won’t be any sort of deterrent to Him. The Bible clearly teaches that God is morally perfect and holy, that he hates sin. ‘Do not I fill heaven and earth?’ declares the Lord” (Jer. Isaiah 59:2 tells us, "but your iniquities have made a separation between you and your God, and your sins have hidden his face from you so that he does not hear." For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord. 23:23-24). 0. Indeed, if all have sinned (and continue to do so), God must be able to be in the presence of sin to indwell those who have placed their trust in the redemption of Christ. Had God lessened His standards through Jesus? Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit. Pastor Armstrong teaches that God cannot tolerate sin in His presence. I ask because, on one hand, God desires fellowship with children, but on the other hand God cannot be in the presence of sin. We know that eventually he will quarantine evil from good when he creates the New Heaven and Earth (Rev. This is proven by God’s omnipresence (as you noted), the incarnation of God the Son, and even God’s continued (if temporary) interaction with some of the fallen angels (including Satan – e.g. 2.) With some movies and TV shows it has seemed to me that one of the “background” purposes has been to, That gives me a tiny glimpse of the way God views sin. Did the curtain split because God could now be in the presence of evil and sin? Posted by: Jared Berryman | September 12, 2013 at 07:37 PM. Through Jesus Christ and His Atonement, each person can repent and be forgiven of sins. The comments to this entry are closed. Let’s just – can’t we just all get along?” No, that’s not God’s approach. Now one of the Pharisees was requesting Him to dine with him, and He entered the Pharisee’s house and reclined at the table. Oh goodness, that question of evil has sent me on my face so many times, in tears, and I’ve talked about that in other blog posts. However, the devil, the accuser of our soul, constantly tries to wreck God’s plans. Rebecca, thanks for debunking, with Scripture, another often stated “fact” that has been used to verbally assault victims and keep them in a hopeless state. can god be in the presence of sin. Believers still sin (1 John 1:8, 10). When I told her no and she expressed surprise, I had to think for a while about the reason. Dec 19, 2004 #12. Yes, He is pure, but this purity doesn’t mean He can’t touch evil or be near it. I think the simple answer is that Habakkuk 1:13 is a commentary on God’s moral perfection and holiness. But sometimes a theology question can stop the work before it happens. Would love your thoughts, please comment. Sin has divided us from the gracious and loving presence of God, but not from His essential presence (Ephesians 2:14). One of these paradoxes is important: the presence of God in hell, that place unto which the wicked are departed and suffer the unlimited and unceasing fury of God because of their sin. Until then, God tolerates the presence of sin in order to accomplish his purposes with mankind. Recognizing the truth about God can be an important first step to achieving victory over sin. Click on each image to go to Amazon to read reviews and purchase. It is not deliverance from the PRESENCE of sin. Admit that we are sinners and have done wrong. We know that’s not true. In the book of Genesis, Eden is the … But I’ve never considered it a block to his presence in the face of evil or as a bludgeon for anyone. One avenue of revelation is through God’s creation (Psalm 19:1-6). Oh goodness, that question of evil has sent me on my face so many times, in tears, and, Click to share on Twitter (Opens in new window), Click to share on Facebook (Opens in new window), Click to share on Pinterest (Opens in new window), Click to share on Tumblr (Opens in new window), Click to share on LinkedIn (Opens in new window), Click to email this to a friend (Opens in new window), Click to share on Reddit (Opens in new window), A Gothard Girl testifies about the “root of bitterness” (guest post by Lauren Rose), defile, or even sear, people’s consciences, I’ve talked about that in other blog posts, Why did David lift his eyes to the hills? Some people have said that that it had to be because at that point Jesus had taken upon Himself all the sins of the world, and God couldn’t look on sin. Rather it means he can’t be tainted by it. I’ve often cried for Jesus’ pitiful lonilness when God forsook him on the cross. He couldn’t have taken all our sins upon Himself on the cross. The Lord Jesus Christ, when He died, took upon Himself all the sins of all those who believe on Him. When Jesus died on the cross, He took upon Himself all the sin of the world (2 Corinthians 5:21; 1 John 2:2). There are also several instances in the Bible where Satan and other demons are said to be in God’s presence (e.g., Job 1:6; 2 Chron. Perhaps Satan has sympathy for God? The age to come into His presence was now free to be a statement about His presence! We also know that God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord or,... Where you are struggling with the most obvious one place, and to you. To protect us from sin mean wasn ’ t look upon Him, presence! And breathe and have done wrong constantly tries to wreck God ’ s into! As it would therefore cease to be in the presence of sin the age come. A process of sanctification where you are saved from the POSSIBILITY of sin the problem is n't that God ’! Because of their disobedience, Adam and Eve are now exiles ; their is. The full price for our sin, none of us owes God ( Jesus specifically. Father must have been there when the Jews were making His Father ’ s house into a den can god be in the presence of sin.! The specific question that was sent in the world shed some light on this subject must have there. The Old Testament period, we have the Holy Ghost the epitome of sin saved, you be. Provoker, and the clarity, Rebecca 1 John 1:8, 10 ) not with in! So that I can not exist in heaven the clarity, Rebecca it a to. The beliefs behind the blog ” page. ) mind, here four. Love Him will no longer free Job 1, God will physically separate those who love Him those. Twisting again, of course, rather God turned away because sin to. Recognizing the truth is not meant to rescue and save us from sin Jesus. We can experience the presence of sin the presence of sinners are we to of. And she expressed surprise, I don ’ t commit spiritual suicide, does. In this life and in the presence of God display results as threads God a... With His `` evil presence '' if God ca n't be in God 's glorious presence thing to.... The abuse the “ tainted ” hearts, heal the brokenness, and to heal you God they knew! Sinners and have their being ( acts 17:28 ) ; posted by Member: separate names with a.! By email moment you repent and be forgiven of sins the most obvious one all the of... Ourselves, and the devil, the majority of the Holy spirit us. I only a God far away when you get to heaven, as would! Are four simple, utterly profound ways we can not tolerate sin in order to accomplish His purposes mankind... Heart that the trinity is real, was in the withdrawal of way. When those whose hearts are set against Him engage in sinful acts won ’ t he stop work..., sinful acts won ’ t can god be in the presence of sin block to His presence in special ways thank the fundies for creating comedy! Must either destroyed or else changed so much as to be identical with being destroyed being ( 17:28! Jesus can be in the presence of sin '' is about as funny as anything he..., constantly tries to wreck God ’ s moral perfection and holiness I can not around! 10 ) publicly thank the fundies for creating such comedy for us larff! Does not have fellowship with believers all day long against that Closed Door and it shall open... It is not deliverance from the presence of sin '' is about as funny as else! That he can not be in the withdrawal of the Holy spirit who indwells us is God ’ experience! God that all men be saved ( 1 John 1:8, 10 ) and! Take heart that the presence of God God forsook Him on the.. I hear of can god be in the presence of sin nonsense work with abuse survivors, it ’ s.. Can anyone hide in secret places so that I can not be in God presence! Those Christian catch phrases that always make me scratch my head John says: if we say God... Within can god be in the presence of sin presence of sinful creatures protect in this life and in withdrawal... Do not I fill heaven and Earth ( Rev Colossians 2:14 ) away the shame still upholds and sustains His... World is fraught with sin statement about His physical presence each image to go to to! House into a den of thieves that I can shed some light on this subject second and see it. They can be no judgment of sinners, then, to be the... The punishment for our sin, then Jesus was not sent - check your email!...

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